Strange question

[morgaina]

I started a calligraphy unit with my students. We use calligraphy markers and after practice, we use faux parchment.
One girl had used her pen to do her name in a "tagging" style.
I asked her to just use the marker for calligraphy and she claimed "This IS calligraphy."

What do you think? If done on small scale with a calligraphy point/nib on paper, could tagging be considered calligraphy?

Comments

[slysidonia.livejournal.com]

From what i know, tagging is just stylized signature that varies with the user's indiviual tastes.. Originally used by street gangs, and Grafitti artisans. I suppose you could pick one style and develop a font style from it. But, to me, with the freedom Tagging's style, making a font of it would be pointless.
So,
I don't agree with your students comment. :)

[copper-oxide.livejournal.com]

Your comment is something I hadn't considered. The aspect of freedom/looseness as opposed to control/planning?

Of course if I said the sky was blue they would argue with me about it.

[slysidonia.livejournal.com]

I find tagging interesting because it incorporates symbolism as well as alpha-numeric characters.

[copper-oxide.livejournal.com]

A lot of the kids' tagging is ugly because they don't really care to do a good job, but this girl has quite an eye and talent so what she was doing was attractive. Although she wasn't following the assignment guidelines.

I always have to stop and try to decide when the kids are not following the assignment requirements because they are creative and trying new things or when they are not doing the assignment and are doing what they have always done because they don't want to take artistic risks.

[slysidonia.livejournal.com]

I found a font site with "tagging" fonts . Take a look .
http://new.myfonts.com/tags/tagging/

[copper-oxide.livejournal.com]

Well whatta ya know! I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, thanks for the link.

[mistresshuette.livejournal.com]

The meaning of Calligraphy is that it is "beautiful writing" calli = beauty graphos = writing.

I do not believe that tagging or graffiti is calligraphy. The intent of the most taggers is not to make art but to mark territory.

Certainly, tagging or graffiti can be considered a graphic art, however that depends on the intent of the person doing. Living in Los Angeles, I have seen many beautiful examples of graffiti that I have admired. There have been movements to offer a forum for these artists to find a forum for their expressions that are not vandalism.

To my mind, graphic art is a broad umbrella that encompasses many forms, one being calligraphy. But that still does not make tagging calligraphy. In my humble opinion, tagging is at best cacography, the 'art' of bad writing.

[copper-oxide.livejournal.com]

Tagging and graffiti are separate art forms.
Graffiti has been considered an art for years now. Art can be bad art or good art, and, of course, many degrees within that continuum.

If my student's work had not been so beautiful, it would not have caused me to stop and ponder that what she was doing was art. But it was well done.

[khalja.livejournal.com]

I agree with your student because it sounds, from your description, that she was meaning "tagging" in the urban art form style, not the vandalism style.

[copper-oxide.livejournal.com]

Thanks :-) I've been thinking about it a lot and I think she was right too.

The thing about being around teenagers, they make you stop and re-think some of your ideas and values that actually do need re-consideration.

[ornerie.livejournal.com]

calligraphy can be any writing....

perhaps asking her to show that its calligraphy by creating an entire alphabet out of the "hand" she created for her tag?

its an intriguing idea...I would suggest that calligraphy can be calligraphy regardless of if we think its pretty or not (some hands are not pleasing to me) and regardless of how its used (medieval documents could be an inventory of toilet paper, and people writing their names on stuff could be seen as calligraphy..and isnt that what tagging is, basically?)

[copper-oxide.livejournal.com]

That's a good idea AM.

I love getting my ideas and mental categories all stirred up by having some input I hadn't considered previously. The style she penned was very graceful, balanced, even. And it included many of the "Principles and Elements of Art" that I repeat ad-nauseum to my classes.

[ornerie.livejournal.com]

I sense a teachable moment.... :)

seriously, if she thought she was being a smart ass, how cool to be able to push back and say "well, actually, I was thinking about what you said. what is calligraphy? show me this isnt just you doodling!"

the idea that you as a kid might be able to actually engage and dialogue with a grownup is kinda empowering at that age :)

[copper-oxide.livejournal.com]

I told her today she had make me re-consider my previous beliefs and why. I also told her I had started a conversation with some of my friends about the subject which she had inspired. She looked pleased

[ornerie.livejournal.com]

I bet! I love it when stuff like that happens :). yay you!!!

I remember teaching high school science...I had an AP class and a "remedial" class. the remedial class had way more fun moments like that than the "college bound" kids. they werent afraid to think outside the box, I guess :)

[loup_noir]

What a great discussion! Have you given her an assignment to use her tagging/calligraphy skills? Maybe ink a poem or invitation, just to see what the overall effect would be?

Some of the tags I've seen are quite pretty, although most are angular scrawls; however, some "real" calligraphy (like the stuff I used to try to do) isn't all that handsome. Clearly, YMMV on this one.

PS If she can be coaxed into working up a project with her tagging font, could you photograph it and post it? I'm intrigued.

[copper-oxide.livejournal.com]

Inking a poem in tagging-style would be great. I would like to use that idea maybe next week. ooou maybe also for my 7th graders, who are "tough guys" ;-). We are coming very close to the end of the quarter for their class, I'm not sure how much more I can get in.
She is doing the assignment, which is a "saying" in one of the several calligraphy styles that I provided examples of. She has blown me away with her abilities at that too. On her first try she is much better than I am (my callig. skills are weak).
She is a very talented young woman, I hope she can pull her life together.

[copper-oxide.livejournal.com]

Good idea about the photographs too.
I had already planned to photograph her calligraphy.

[petitsyrah.livejournal.com]

Calligraphy is beautiful writing, and as we tell the kids every day the purpose of writing is communication. Most of the tagging I see at the schools I go in to only communicates possession or presence, nothing further. Not to mention it is usually not very attractive.

I like the idea of asking her to create an entire alphabet and write something. It would be interesting to see what she comes up with. I have been doing a lot of work this year on finding non traditional ways for students to do reading and writing assignments. A writing assignment that combined with an art assignment using tagging style calligraphy could be quite fascinating.

[copper-oxide.livejournal.com]

Yes, I am finding (to my amazement) some beauty in tagging if it is done with care.
Graffiti art seems so different. The stuff that has artistic merit is usually done on ugly walls, abandon buildings, railroad cars, underpasses. etc. Things that were blights on the landscape anyway.*
Tagging seems to be laid on many more structures, some of which weren't the eyesores as much. Maybe.... I'm going to pay more attention to the structures I see tagging on.
* Mexico seemed to be an exception to this, I saw graffiti and tagging on beautiful old adobe brick structures....painful.

[copper-oxide.livejournal.com]

When I was in the classroom way back when, I used to give the kids a handout sheet of Futhark and have them translate their spelling words into Futhark.
They LOVED it.